Milwaukee Midget

[fordboy628]

Layover angle of the "Special K" . . . . . .    maybe some sponsorship $ from Kelloggs?

midget,

Looks like 12 degrees is the standard install angle.





I'm actually thinking the best situation will be to install this puppy vertically, more room to fabricate headers and keep clear of the steering shaft.    The only caveat is whether straight up impacts inlet manifold/injector/air cleaner space negatively.

Probably need to do a mock up with some measurements and photos relatively soon.
 
Fordboy

[Milwaukee Midget]

I'm actually thinking the best situation will be to install this puppy vertically, more room to fabricate headers and keep clear of the steering shaft.    The only caveat is whether straight up impacts inlet manifold/injector/air cleaner space negatively.

The other point of impact might be the bonnet. 

[fordboy628]

I'm actually thinking the best situation will be to install this puppy vertically, more room to fabricate headers and keep clear of the steering shaft.    The only caveat is whether straight up impacts inlet manifold/injector/air cleaner space negatively.

The other point of impact might be the bonnet. 

Well, it has got to be "shorter" with the cam cover "flat" as opposed to tilted 12 degrees on the crankshaft centerline.

That's just geometry . . . . . .   
 
Fordboy

[Milwaukee Midget]

That's just geometry . . . . . .   
 

Slim - is there a reason this poor, dead horse is constantly getting clubbed in the nuts?

I'm starting to feel empathy for an avatar . . .

[Peter Jack]

If you put the engine in straight up and use a stock pan there won't be any question as to which side the oil should be scavanged from! 

Pete

[Speed Limit 1000]

When doing a HeliCoil you should use a 120 degree countersink and install the insert 1/4 to 1/2 turn from flush.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

PJ:

"Balls, said the Queen.  If I had 'em I'd be King!"

Having said that I find that upon close inspection the dead horse is being clubbed on the outside of the left rear hip.  No family items are being threatened.  And anyway, the horse is/was a gelding -- nothing much remains to be clubbed.

[Peter Jack]

PJ:

"Balls, said the Queen.  If I had 'em I'd be King!"

Having said that I find that upon close inspection the dead horse is being clubbed on the outside of the left rear hip.  No family items are being threatened.  And anyway, the horse is/was a gelding -- nothing much remains to be clubbed.

I'm innocent Slim, honest! Look back, it's Chris that's the nefarious scoundrel. 

Pete

[fordboy628]

Special 'K',  krankenshafted . . . . . .

OK.  Got my first close up inspection of this "engine of the eighties".    Interesting, to say the least.    Sorry, I did not take the time for photos.

First, and worst, observation was that ALL the rod bearing oiling is directed from cross-drilled main bearing journals #2 and #4.    This is coupled with main bearings grooved on the upper shell only, positions #2, #3, and #4 only.

Think about this, and what it really is.   Stumped?    It's the oiling setup from the #2 main to the #2/#3 rods, albeit with cross-drilling, from our favorite tractor engine, the BMC!!!!!!!    Doubled up to feed 2 sets for a total of 4 rod bearings.    Makes you wonder who designed this setup . . . . . .  and also if the racing K's in Britain are using modified oiling systems.    BTW, as an aside, this crank is heavily worn on the rod journals.    Go figure.

Well, no harm done, 'cause Chris wasn't going to be able to use it anyway, because of the stroke.

So, to paraphrase former Bears head coach Dick Jauron's 2002 Quote of the year, "It's not my build, but I'm on that build."     Given that, this is what I would do for a crank:

1]   E4340 billet crankshaft.  8 counterweights, aerodynamically shaped.   Heat treat with Ion-plasma nitride.    Dynamically balanced.

2]   Reduce stroke to 56mm.   (75mm bore = 989.6 cc's       75.5mm bore = 1002.8 cc's)

3]   Size/grind rod journals to use race quality bearings, Honda or other.

4]   Drill crank for low pressure oiling strategy, ala Nascar Chevy.   #1 main feeds #1 rod; #2 main feeds #2 rod; #3 main feeds thrust washers; #4 main feeds #3 rod; and
      #5 main feeds #4 rod.     This will require grooved bearings or grooving the stock bearings to facilitate the oil feed, as in racing 4 cylinder Fords/Cosworths.   No cross-drilling.
      edit:   Grooving the mains, (1,2,4,5) ala racing Subaru, might be the best option.

5]   Retain rear hub seal diameter and location to retain stock rear crank seal.

6]   Extend rear hub to accommodate engine adaptor plate and BMC transmission.   Dimensions/sketch to follow.

7]   Machine/grind rear hub extension to mount BMC flywheel with the std BMC bolt/dowel pattern.   3/8ths UNF threads in crank.

8]   Retain BMC pilot bushing dimensions in rear hub extension.

9]   Retain metric crank snout thread for drive cog compatibility.

x]   Possible main journal/main bearing size change, if a suitable fully grooved bearing is found.   ? ? ? ? ?

Anything else you can think of Chris?
 
Numbbrainboy

[fordboy628]

If you put the engine in straight up and use a stock pan there won't be any question as to which side the oil should be scavanged from!  

Pete

Kind of a plus actually.    We'll have to see if a new oil suction pipe or an external line is the best option.

Did Chris mention the stock oil pickup is plastic?   Probably an oil resistant nylon or co-polymer.   
 
Fordboy

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Well, yeah, I see -- but still, you whine ever so well.

[Peter Jack]

Well, yeah, I see -- but still, you whine ever so well.

Thank-you!  

Now back to the MM thread.

Pete

[Interested Observer]

Midget/Fordboy:
Ref. Reply #4988

Some of the following may be the result of misinterpretation, but anyway..

1] “Heat treat” to what condition and when in the process?  Shotpeened or rolled and undercut fillets?  Presume the nitriding is only on the journals, not fillets.  (Who wants brittle stress concentrations?)  Counterweights per eventually selected reciprocating part weights?

4]  What is the “low pressure oiling strategy”, just the flow pattern?   Presume that “grooving the mains” a la Subaru refers to grooving the main bearings, not the journals.

x]  Looking at previous photos of the girdle (page 302), it appears that the stock oil enters the mains about 120 degrees ATDC, which makes sense since at that location, the clearance between the bearing shell and the journal would be closing up, with oil immediately available going into the load carrying portion of the bearing.  Also note that the stock bottom bearing shells are NOT grooved.  This also makes sense, since a groove would significantly reduce the load capacity of the bearing.  A fully grooved bearing would be bad news for two reasons--one, less area to support the load and two, the groove provides a location for the oil that is in the close clearances between the journal and the bearing to leak out and further reduce the clearance and capacity.
       The upper halves appear to be grooved, which is probably OK due to lower loading requirements and facilitates collecting oil for feeding to the rods.
      I would think long and hard before grooving the lower bearings.

[fordboy628]

midget,

At least high quality bearings are available for the 1.8L Rover.



Now we just need to do some research to confirm the sizes are the same as the 1.4L engine.   Or if the block can be modified for these bearings . . . . . . .

Notice that the bearing arrangement is the same though, grooved bearings on the top of #2, #3, and #4 main only.

How many days until SpeedWeek 2016?
 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

Midget/Fordboy:
Ref. Reply #4988

Some of the following may be the result of misinterpretation, but anyway..

1] “Heat treat” to what condition and when in the process?  Shotpeened or rolled and undercut fillets?  Presume the nitriding is only on the journals, not fillets.  (Who wants brittle stress concentrations?)  Counterweights per eventually selected reciprocating part weights?

4]  What is the “low pressure oiling strategy”, just the flow pattern?   Presume that “grooving the mains” a la Subaru refers to grooving the main bearings, not the journals.

x]  Looking at previous photos of the girdle (page 302), it appears that the stock oil enters the mains about 120 degrees ATDC, which makes sense since at that location, the clearance between the bearing shell and the journal would be closing up, with oil immediately available going into the load carrying portion of the bearing.  Also note that the stock bottom bearing shells are NOT grooved.  This also makes sense, since a groove would significantly reduce the load capacity of the bearing.  A fully grooved bearing would be bad news for two reasons--one, less area to support the load and two, the groove provides a location for the oil that is in the close clearances between the journal and the bearing to leak out and further reduce the clearance and capacity.
       The upper halves appear to be grooved, which is probably OK due to lower loading requirements and facilitates collecting oil for feeding to the rods.
      I would think long and hard before grooving the lower bearings.

IO,

I don't think there is any misinterpretation when I am not as specific as I could be.

Re:
1]    I leave the specifics of the heat treatment process to the crankshaft mfg pros.   I know just enough about material science & heat treatment to be dangerous.   Although I
       know what I want in the end product.    I also defer the design/mfg process to the pros who do it every day, as they have more experience with what can be done and
       what will work.    Greg Rodi is ex-Moldex, and he is Chris' choice.     But there is no shortage of good race crank manufacturers out there.   I think most crank mfg's
       specify a "triple heat treat", although I'm not sure of the specifics.

4]    A "straight shot" oil drilling that supplies oil to the rod bearing ~60 degrees or so BTDC.    I have seen a LOT of bearing wear with the Cosworth type rod oiling, and it
       REQUIRES high oil pressure (90+ psi) to have any chance of working.    I'm also wanting to have full oil flow and pressure available to the rod bearings, all through the
       cycle, not just every 180 degrees.    This "straight shot" permits lower oil pressure while preserving bearing life.   The lower oil pressure can gain a bhp or 2 in an engine
       of this size/output, and as usual, we are looking to extract every bhp possible.

Check out this photo of a racing Subaru billet from Marine Crankshaft.   It has grooved mains for oiling feed.


I too, would prefer to use full bearings for the lower shells, for the reasons you state, though I realize that grooved mains will also reduce the load carrying capacity as well.  What we need is some feedback from guys racing K series engines using the stock style oiling.    I'd bet good money that they are not as happy with their bearing wear as 4 cylinder Ford racers or even BMC 4 racers.    I'm not keen on using the stock bearing as they are a "stock" quality bearing.   I'd prefer to upgrade to the Mahle/Vandervell VP-2 material, as used in racing Fords/BMCs/Cosworths.    It is a proven material for racing.

 
Fordboy